[Draven51501]

hello, guys!!!

I have been studying ang reading about Nutrition and I haven't found or read anything about this Vitamin B15 or Pangamic Acid.

The advertisements of the manufacturers of this vitamin a few years ago, around '97 or '98 said that they are newly isolated vitamins...

Now, it's 2001 and I still haven't read anything about them in the books..[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/wow.gif[/img]

Do they really exist or are they just Vitamin E and sold to the public as Vit B15?[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Because in their advertisement, it seems to me that Vit B15 has the same function as Vit. E..[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/wow.gif[/img]

Anybody using this Vitamin? or anybody has any info on this... your views please..[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/wink2.gif[/img]

[spangle]

hello Draven,
Pangamic Acid is an analog af the B vitamin family which belong to the water soluble type.Meaning,it is going to be excreted what is in excess of the requirement needed.Vitamin E is a fat soluble Vitamin which if given in excessive doses is harmful as it stored in the liver,where it is metabolized or processed.
B-15,is known to inhibit the production of lactic acid,which is a by-product of stress.Like in a competitive activity,muscle fibers produce lactic acid after every effort,administration B-15 controls its release therefore delaying the fatigue factor,that's what the manufacturers claim though...hope this helps.....
There is no replacement of a well conditioned rooster with a multi functional supplement given,just my opinion....

CHEERS

SPANGLE


[This message has been edited by spangle (edited 08-27-2001).]

[Camarines]

Raven,

Try this website http://www.vitaminworld.com you should be able to find it.

[This message has been edited by Camarines (edited 08-27-2001).]

[Draven51501]

thanks, spangle.[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/smile.gif[/img] yes, that's what I also read in their adverisements.

camarines,
thanks but there were no description on Vit. B15 just the usual B-vitamins.


I am very interested in this vitamin because if it does exist and their claim as to the action of B15 is true, it would be very beneficial not only to our fowl but also to us. as what spangle posted, the B-vitamins are water-soluble together with Vit. C. they are easily excreted in the urine and feces and we would not have to worry about toxicity due to high amounts unlike the lipid-soluble vitamins(A,D,E,K) which are not easily excreted out of the body and is toxic in high amounts.

[Camarines]

Click on the B vitamins and then click on the next page. Calcium Pangamate (B15), 50mg, 250 tablets, and the cost is $8.95.

[Draven51501]

camarines,

yes, i have been there but like i said there were no description on B-15. they are just selling them. i don't want to buy them until i now more about them or know that they really exist. i think you misunderstood me.

[Roadman167]

I have tried B15 and Pangamic acid. Vitamin B15 is what the Russian athletes use in the 80's. The B15 I used came from Mexico, it is used for race horses. I mix it with other vitamins to decreased the concentration cause it is too strong. Night Owl sells B15 injectables. I had good results with it. Pangamic acid tablets can be bought at vitamin stores, it is the active ingridient in B15.

[Galapong]

Draven let me try to answer your question. B-15 , used to be called B17 helps in the formation of amino acids. DMG also plays a role in the oxidation of cells and the enhancement of the liver function, also in detoxification. Conditioners have used it. It exist but it is not a common item you will see in a vitamin rack. The misconception is it is not a stimulant..like a typical vitamin it's a builder.. hey it's good for hang overs and it's a great vitamin..hope this helps..

Keep em game and fighting

Galapong

[Draven51501]

roadman and galapong,

thank you for sharing with me your experience and info on B15, guys.[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
any info i get always helps, THANKS!!![img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Maning]

B-15 is the most effective fatigue fighter in the world today. B-15 builds stamina and increases nitrogen uptake in the blood. B-15 goes farher than B-12 in helping your fowl get stronger; hence, more wins, especially in drag fight.And when used in conjunction with B-12, it will help not only with fatigue, but also increases the red blood cell count to help with breathing capacity. With unmatched effects, B-15 removes Lactic Acid which forms around the muscle cells.

[Sundowner]

Maning, I'd been using the B15 for a long time with success. However, I would like to know if it is OK to use this in high humidity like PI and what is the recommended dosage?. On summer fights here, I reduced the dosage. However, a freind of mine told me to administer the B15 shot before heeling. I noticed that the bird seem to be acting sluggish. This is just on hot weather. I need your input please. To be honest with you, I won more fights on winter than summer.
Thanks,


------------------
Sonny

[Kidd Sentencia]

What are your preferred ways in giving B-12 and B-15...by mouth or intra-muscle (do they have veins?...hehehe).

Kidd

[Harimanok]

Visit this site!!!! http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates...rticle&ID=1925

[Kidd Sentencia]

Nice article, Harimanok...thanks!

Got us thinking now...but at least nothing mentioned about any bad side effects. Now us guys, don't take a second look at it after a night of inuman...hehehe.

Kidd

[Maning]

Title
Critical evaluation of the current studies on pangamic acid--vitamin B15.
Author
Lampart Szczapa E; Skupin J
Address

Source
Nahrung, 1982, 26:4, 363-7
Abstract
The research on pangamic acid (vitamin B15) has been conducted by specialists in many fields of science for along time. This, however, has not put an end to controversies around the problem of its therapeutic effect. The solution to the basic problems, i.e. defining the compound structure, finding an explicit method of its determination and identification as well as the evidence of its biochemical and physiological functions in the human organism appears as distant as ever. It has been found out, however, that either some preparations referred to as pangamic acid (vitamin B15) or their components may be detrimental to man's health.

[Kidd Sentencia]

Wow! Not good for my hangover then...whew, these readings...hehehe. Not good for human; good for sasabunging manok? What else are good for manok but not for humans? Or, Maning's last post, with source, also implies none should use it? Ahhhhh, more tests please....

hehehe,
Kidd

[Maning]

Originally posted by Sundowner:
Maning, I'd been using the B15 for a long time with success. However, I would like to know if it is OK to use this in high humidity like PI and what is the recommended dosage?. On summer fights here, I reduced the dosage. However, a freind of mine told me to administer the B15 shot before heeling. I noticed that the bird seem to be acting sluggish. This is just on hot weather. I need your input please. To be honest with you, I won more fights on winter than summer.
Thanks,

Sonny,, Most of the people i know uses the injectable form of B-15. 50,100,250 and 500mg/ml are available in the market.The most common practice i know is, 1/4ml injected subcutaneously or intramuscularly into the breast 2 times a week during the pre-keep and the keep with the last injection on fight day or some are giving it before heeling. But Mine,i use the capsule form(100mg). Maybe i just hate the needle.hehehe.I give a capsule every other day during the keep with the last capsule on the morning of the fight.So far, i don't see them acting strange in hot weather unless maybe they are off...

[Sundowner]

Thanks Maning.
I am using the 500mg/ml injectable (1/4cc) four hours before fight. Maybe this is too strong for the bird.

Cheers,



------------------
Sonny

Maning/Sundowner
if you use 1/4 cc of the 500mg/ml B15, how much would be for 50mg/ml..As for B-12 vitamin if i use 1/2cc of the 1000mcgB-12,how much would be for the 5000mcg??? thanks..

[Kidd Sentencia]

2.5 cc on the B-15?

500 MG = 50 MG x 10
500 MG/10 cc = 500 MG/100 cc
1/10 /4 = 0.25 10/100 /4 = 2.5cc

DFV, fool proof mo nga itong 'metik kong natutunan sa istambayan...hehehe.

Kidd



[This message has been edited by Kidd Sentencia (edited 09-06-2001).]

[Sundowner]

ERLUNTZ,
It is hard for me to recommend the exact dossage. You just have to use your common sense and do the calculation. Reason being is, body weight and age of the bird is a big factor. Maybe Maning have a different view on this. Good luck.



------------------
Sonny

[Draven51501]

this is part of an article taken from the october 1998 issue of the Gamecock entitled CONDITIONING AIDS by Sammy Claunts Jr...

"This month I'm going to talk a little about conditioning aids. An article I've put off, but thought could be of some help. This product, B-15 is supposed to give a bird super stamina. Well, it doesn't. If you think you're seeing results it's probably a placebo effect and your breeding, not your B-15, should be commended. B-15 also called Pangamic Acid is worthless. It was dreamed up by a father and son team of Ernest and Ernest Krebs. They extracted B-15 from substances such as seeds and claimed the substance and its essential ingedient, a chemical compound(abbreviated as DMG) could cure anything from eczema to schizophrenia. It gained most of it's popularity from the Russians who insisted it increased the body's ability to transport oxygen to the muscles. But rigorous studies at the University of Los Angeles showed that B-15 did not result in any metabolic of circulatory advantages for human subjects during short term submaximal exercise. And finally there is no such chemical entity as Pangamic Acid or B-15. These are trade names for mixtures of whatever the nutrition hustlers want to put together and call Pangamic Acid or B-15."

Draven your post is right on. I was waiting for some one to post the facts. I was aware of these fact but it seems as if my post are taken likely. The wonder drugs for CRD are along the same lines.

Reb &Draven
I think ill agree with you on this one.Common sense tells me that if there is such a thing as B-15 ay sana'y matagal ng kasama ito sa mga ingredients ng multivitamins na pantao at siya rin nating binibigay sa ating mga tinali..

Mga cockmates,

Speaking of B15,in what type of grains we can find the b15 contents?? what i have search is that it can be found in SUNFLOWER...do you agree with that?


Your feedback is highly appreciated....HAPPY COCKING!

Kalantiaw

[don b]

Brown rice and other seeds.
OK B15 or pangamic acid is an old Russian formula, that is why it was filled with controversies. Marathon runners used this to run an extra mile. It is also used in race horses, to let them run the last lap as fast as when they started. There is no known vitamin B15 deficiency that is why it is not a vitamin but a supplement. It works simply becuse it supplies your brain and body more oxygen to avoid tireness. It is also used on autistic children. Provides them with more oxygen to the brain and for speech development. There are claims that it cures cancer that is why it was pulled out of the shelf. It needs scientific studies for such claims. As long as it is considered a supplement DMG or pangamic acid would be available. It's all natural and could be good for cancer as a supplement. The same thing happened to ampalaya.........and coconut oil.........

[Rochel]

Gentlemen,

Vitamin B15 is designed for long drag or pontisa/spanish fighting or horse racing. Whereas, Philippine cockfighting “Slasher” will last only less than 10 to 15 seconds. Long drag in “Slasher” meaning that the cock is injured. Furthermore, the cock is relying on gameness and health during drag or milking the time. Ask yourself; Do the cock needs it? In medical application, not needed however, to acquire more edge and bandwagon effect, we tend to experiment, isn’t it?
Here is my conclusion. I had been using Blackhawk 55K (injectable) and it consist of the following specs (base on 1cc).
Cyanocobalamin = 2500 mcg
Hydroxicobalamin = 3000 mcg
B15 = 250 mcg
Other B Complex

Dosage: ½ cc for each cock weekly during conditioning + Iron supplement

Iron Source:
Dark leafy greens also provide us with another essential nutrient, iron.
Other iron-rich foods include dried beans, blackstrap molasses, and dried fruits such as raisins and figs.

Rules of Thumb: “ To much of one thing, damage everything” “Less of something, work towards educating” ricci calins

[Camarines]

B-15 helps in cardio vascular and mental acuity.

[leiper]

b15 is pangamic acid as russian called it, it is the carrier of demythaglacine (dmg15) it is also known as niteowl for others. it is not vitamin but the dmg help to pump blood. i use b15 tablet and proved effective.



san bruno whackers

[janrich]

We've been using B-15 during conditioning to aid on fatigue muscle. Most of the guys here are right about B-15, they were used by Russian Athletes to give them that extra push of power...