[the_cure]

i used to believe that winning in a cockfight depends on the four factors namely:the ability of the cock, conditioning & training , quality of the feeds used, and the matching at the cockpit.

however, i chanced upon an article regarding the adjustable socket knife that appeared in one of the magazines that i subscribe to.

it mentioned the superiority of the said knife because of it's unussual style of the blade, once inside the cock's body, does not comes out the same way.

to ensure maximum impact of the cock's wallop, a shorter wrap should be used for the base of the knife.

i did try experimenting with the adjustable socket knife and with shorter wrap and to my amazement, my winnings far exceeded my losses. in 28 cockfights, i won 22 and lost 6. it is to be noted that a cut does not stop a cock from fighting but rather the "shock" that is caused by the impact created by the shorter wrap of the adjustable socket knife.

my friends who still insist in using the traditional Filipino fork knife used to comment that winning depends on luck and the four factors i've mentioned and not the kind of knives used.

in reply, i tell them that they are wrong because all factors being equal, the "knife is the main deciciding factor in winning a cockfight".

as "guns have different caliber, so as knives"

i would say the adjustable socket knife has a high caliber compared to the traditional Filipino fork knife.

[Rigolleto]

the_cure,

Looks like you have come upon a winning design, I hope it would not be too much to ask if you can share with us your good results by describing the unusual style of the knife you are using, only if it is OK with you. I can tell you, it will be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Kidd Sentencia]

the_cure,

You sounded like Mr. Efraim Aguilar (sp)...yours are almost exactly his lines of words or preaches for his knives. I am not challenging or commenting on your knives, a matter of fact, per your words they are impressive.

Kidd

[Camarines]

The_cure,
The number of your wins against your losses does not make your so called adjustable socket knife superior. Your opponent is probably not equally matched. Your bird can possibly have all the advantage in age, height and weight or even quality. This does not mean you won because of your knife. I've seen birds with broken knife leg win because they're aggressive and will fight to their last dying breath. Does that make their weapon superior?

[victe]

Pag nagkagyera, peace talk agad. 50/50 ang bargaining. Sa knife at manok. hindi pwedeng lumamang masyado ang isa, base on your experience and winning factor ng manok at knife. It just so happened as I stand before: Its 50/50! (knife factor includes the mananari skill)


tsirs!


victe

[This message has been edited by victe (edited 08-25-2001).]

[the_cure]

Originally posted by Camarines:
The_cure, I've seen birds with broken knife leg win because they're aggressive and will fight to their last dying breath. Does that make their weapon superior?

camarines,
i doubt that what you saw has really a broken knife leg, kasi scientifically speaking paano pa magagamit ng manok kung talagang paralisado na yong paa niya, baka sa umpisa ng laban ay tinamaan na niya yong kalaban, saka siya nabalian. kung basing lang sa agressiveness ang sinasabi mo, ay baka hindi game yong kalaban, kasi sa manok maraming mga movie actors according to "tar heel". kasi kong game masyado yon at pilay-tari yong kalaban "agressiveness" na lang ang panlaban paano mananalo yon kung iyong nakatayo ay wala pang sugat sa umpisa. parang malabo yon ahh.

the_cure

[the_cure]

Originally posted by Kidd Sentencia:
the_cure,

You sounded like Mr. Efraim Aguilar (sp)...yours are almost exactly his lines of words or preaches for his knives. I am not challenging or commenting on your knives, a matter of fact, per your words they are impressive.

Kidd

kidd,
mag kaiba naman cguro kami ng style ng tari ni efraim, but i've heard na magaling din yong tari niya.
thanks kidd!

the_cure

the cure, tama ka pare! tare ang #1 factor sa sabong, kaya lang hindi sa klase ng tare kung hindi sa abilidad ng mananare. sa akin obserbasyon dalawa ang klase ng mananare. ang una ay yung mga cosistently natatalo o tumatabla dahil sa drag fight. kung manalo e tsamba lang. maraming ganyan kaya iwasan mo yan. ang pangalawa ay siyempre yung kung magtare e isang palo lang patay ang kalaban. iilan lang yan at yun ang subaybayan mo. the rest is manggagantso na [tama ba ang espeling?he!he!he!]

Romy Cruz ..tama ka pare ko..noong nag-uumpisa pa lang ako palibhasa wala pang kilalang magaling na mananari ..nagamit ko yong unang klase na sinasabi mo..lamang yong talo sa panalo..pag panalo naman hirap na hirap pa..hanggang nakakilala ako ng isa na ginagamit ng jueting lord sa amin at dumadayo sa Metro Manila..biglang taas ang win record ko using the same class of birds as the first..pag pumalo may tama and usually the fights end quickly..
after such fights i congratulate my mananari and he is quick to add na magaling lang talga ang manok...i guess he has a valid point too..
pag nagkapangalan na ang isang mananari ..that he is magaling..guess who asks for his services..siempre yong medyo bigtime na may magagaling na manok at handler/conditioner..kaya mas lumalaki ang chances ni mananri to win his fights....my opinions only....

allow me to state my opinion. the cure already said it in his first post: all factors being equal... then maybe the knife is the deciding factor. true. maybe. i can also cliam the same thing: assuming all factors being equal, limiting the factors to bloodline, quality of raising, conditioning, knife and matching, then the main deciding factor is cockhouse environment and maybe pitting. but pare, let's be realistic. with millions of differences in these factors, it is impossible to assume that all factors are equal. sa bloodline pa lang, mahirap magkalaban ang full brothers, if at all. but even then, among brothers, they don't really fight exactly the same way. next sa raisng o feeding. if there are 100 people feeding and conditioning roosters, then there are 100 different keeps being followed. etc. so i believe the main point in this thread is not true - again in the sense that we cannot and should not assume that all things or factors being equal and just conveniently leave out the knife as the sole deciding factor in the winnning of a fight. again, i hope i don't raise anyone's hackles with this post. peace lang tayo, yung manok lang natin fight.

[GoodWings]

Friends, all your posts are worthwhile reading. My unsolicited opinion, I agree with most of you - a good knife plus a good mananare is only an advantage.

Emoy, I'd like to congratulate you & your sunday noontime show, walastik! ang gagaling ng mga manok na pinalabas nyo last time. Jun Santiago vs Patrick Antonio.

[the_cure]

emoy,
pero yung nangyari sa trial ko sa adjustable socket knife ko ay dehadong dehado pa ako kasi gusto ko talagang matestingan ang tari na yon, kaya araw-araw akong bumibili sa palenke ng manok na wala talagang nangyayaring conditioning. meron pang isang incident na pinaliguan ko ang manok, pagkatapos me nagyayang kami ay maglaban, ang ginawa ko ay kumuha ako ng blower ng buhok sa sister at saka pinahangin ko ang manok hanggang matuyo at nilaban ko. resulta nanalo ang manok na yaon. meron pa akong isa nanalo siya ng araw na yon pero yong kaliwang mga daliri ay nakatiklop na kasi tinamaan din siya ng kalaban, sa susunod na araw ay inilaban ko kaagad kahit nakatiklop na ang lahat na daliri sa kaliwa, resulta nanalo pa rin. pero hindi ko naman sinasabi na hindi natatalo pero ang nangyari sa akin nang ako ay gumamit ng tari na ito ay mataas na mataas talaga ang winning percentage ko.

the_cure

p.s.
pls. check the explanation of the heeler you feature in tukaan last sunday august 26. yong tungkol sa target point na sinulat niya na high point at low point. sa tingin ko baligtad cguro yon. just try to check. thanks.
the_cure

[spangle]

the_cure,
my friend happen to give american breeders some socket knives as a present. He is doing this in the last 7 years and we order it from a Cebuano friend we call Boy Kimpang,I'm not calling names here but aficionados really call him that way....I'ts been along time already...hmmmmmnn...are you saying that your adjustable socket knife is what we call OK knife?
please confirm....

spangle


oo nga pala sir emoy,assuming pantay lahat, hindi na magkakatalo sa tare at mananare dahil pareho ang gamit nila sa kay the cure? sinong nakakalamang ngayon???...baka magandang isali ang sentensiyador dito....



[This message has been edited by spangle (edited 08-28-2001).]

[Camarines]

http://www.sabong.com.ph/public_html...3?qid=2&aid=.1

[This message has been edited by Camarines (edited 08-28-2001).]

SPANGLE,YOU MENTION ABOUT BOY KIMPANG,I ALSO USE HIS KNIFE.ACTUALLY I JUST RECIEVED TWO DOZEN FROM HIM LAST MONTH.THE AJUSTIBLE SOCKET KNIFE THEY ARE TALKING HERE,KIMPANG CALL IT NINJA TURTLE.THIS KIND OF KNIFE WORKS FOR ME.BUT NO GUARANTEE OF WINS,IT DEPENDS ON YOUR COCKS THAT HAVE ALL TLC.

[victe]

You can have an EDGE but not a sure win

Look:

Bloodlines
selection
conditioning
knife
mananari
age of cock

When you release your cock,(chicken[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]), all you can see is your fighter and the wounds. Regla,malas at kung anu-ano pa, its all in the power of the mind!

In short, if you have a good chicken, you are confident you can win, if you have good knife that is tied properly, the probability that you'll win is very high. other than that, call it break of the game. Its more profesional than blaming it to malas or swerte. malas or swerte is just an expression acceptable to cocking world to save ones ego. Right? se ya!

tsirs!

victe

i agree with you Emoy..there is no such thing as all factors being equal in cockfighting..."there are a lot of factors combining together that results in winning or losing a fight" ...
the cure
mukhang long way to go pa ang ang experiment mo..sa kuento mo ay parang sa tupada pa lang ginagamit ang tari mo..but as per your words the results are very promising...would you agree though or concede to me that somebody using your weapon in a say..4 cock derby can score 0-4????
any weapon..be it fork knife ,socket knife or the adjustable knife by the cure if aimed true and tied right ...if it pierces the heart or any other vital organs of the bird will kill it or maim it...so i guess we should be looking for those birds that has the power to thrust the knife and can aim it to the vital organs....my opinion only.........

[Kidd Sentencia]

How much do you sell your Knife, the_cure?

I'm convinced, I want some!

Kidd

[the_cure]

[quote]Originally posted by spangle:
[b]the_cure,
my friend happen to give american breeders some socket knives as a present. He is doing this in the last 7 years and we order it from a Cebuano friend we call Boy Kimpang,I'm not calling names here but aficionados really call him that way....I'ts been along time already...hmmmmmnn...are you saying that your adjustable socket knife is what we call OK knife?
please confirm....

spangle


spangle,
pare, ang tawag ko lang dito ay adjustable socket knife, pero marami na ang gumagawa ng adjustable socket knife gaya ng sinasabi mo na 7 years mo nang nakukuha 'yan, pero yong mga tinatawag nilang adjustable.. adjustable ay wala silang modification sa blade side, ang kanilang socket lang ang nag improve, ang kanilang adjustable ay pareho pa rin ang porma ng blade sa fork knife na walang nabago, at ganoon pa rin ang setting, itong sa akin ay binago ko ang porma ng blade at ang setting, so iba talaga ito sa iba. kaya nga sinasabi kong higher caliber na knife ito. kung baga sa baril, shotgun na ito. example, kung tayo'y mag barilan at sabay tayong kakalabit sa gatillo at sabay tayong tatamaan, at yong hawak mo ay shotgun at yong sa akin ay .22, sino ngayon ang unang matutumba?
the_cure

Originally posted by the_cure:
i used to believe that winning in a cockfight depends on the four factors namely:the ability of the cock, conditioning & training , quality of the feeds used, and the matching at the cockpit.

however, i chanced upon an article regarding the adjustable socket knife that appeared in one of the magazines that i subscribe to.

it mentioned the superiority of the said knife because of it's unussual style of the blade, once inside the cock's body, does not comes out the same way.

to ensure maximum impact of the cock's wallop, a shorter wrap should be used for the base of the knife.

i did try experimenting with the adjustable socket knife and with shorter wrap and to my amazement, my winnings far exceeded my losses. in 28 cockfights, i won 22 and lost 6. it is to be noted that a cut does not stop a cock from fighting but rather the "shock" that is caused by the impact created by the shorter wrap of the adjustable socket knife.

my friends who still insist in using the traditional Filipino fork knife used to comment that winning depends on luck and the four factors i've mentioned and not the kind of knives used.

in reply, i tell them that they are wrong because all factors being equal, the "knife is the main deciciding factor in winning a cockfight".

as "guns have different caliber, so as knives"

i would say the adjustable socket knife has a high caliber compared to the traditional Filipino fork knife.

You and I use somewhat of the same "type" of LK, from what I see you describe,I also use a Socket"less" adjustable knife, more shock, and better cutting from my expearince then the tradional fork,and takes much less time to heel, but still, the rooster is the one who puts the blade to use. I tryed many knives out and for my roosters and me, the knife pattern that I have custom made for me works, now if someone else used the very same knife, on there birds, it may not work for them, I have found out you just have to find what you like and what works for you and you fowl.


------------------
Happy Hill Gamefarm

[This message has been edited by PITBULL (edited 09-02-2001).]

i just would like to offer another explanation on why chickens go into shock, other than the impact of the knife due to its shorter wrap. when the knife pierces the body of our opponent, whether a big slash is created or not, whether the penetration is deep or not, when major organs or arteries or veins or blood vessels are hit, two things happen: hemorrhagic shock or outright death. in the case of the former, when blood gets out of the cardiovascular system, blood pressure drops, and consequently shock sets in. whether its internal or external hemorrhage, the shock is the result of this, and most likely, not due to the short wrap of the adjustable knife. this was the discussion of dr. gil nicolas in one of tukaan's episodes last year. again, this is just my honest opinion about this topic and i hope no hackles are raised by this contrary view.

[Draven51501]

[pls. check the explanation of the heeler you feature in tukaan last sunday august 26. yong tungkol sa target point na sinulat niya na high point at low point. sa tingin ko baligtad cguro yon. just try to check. thanks.
the_cure[/b][/quote]

sir emoy,

i, together with some friends also saw that episode that the_cure was talking about. we have the same observation with the_cure, that baliktad ang high point at low point sa explaination sa tari portion ng Tukaan.

i did too. sorry guys, slip of the tongue, este, pen di-ay. it's a poor excuse but i guess the buck stops with the producer - me. my mistake. sorry for the slip.

[felisa]

this is only what i heard, for i am not a gaffer and i don't know anything about it yet., but i heard that some big time breeders tried to tie their line of cocks first in their farm before fighting them if whta type of knife they have to use or what type of sight they have to improvise and than they examined the dead cock on how that type of knife able to kill their and damage their opponet. what i am trying to say is that if you have hundred of this line then you have to pit test them with culled roosters and see if they can handle this knife and wht kind of adjustment you have to omake. i think it's one to the advantages of having thousands of roosters and the best lmananari for i think alll kyou need in knife is just one sure hit and make sure your cock will be able to give a good hit for the knife to penetrate. thanks and keep on cybercocking.

[Maning]

Lets say that two full brothers fought with different(well known) gaffer but the knife was made by the same maker;the same style,and metal.Who do you think got the advantage,the knife???

[victe]

Originally posted by felisa:
but i heard that some big time breeders tried to tie their line of cocks first in their farm before fighting them if whta type of knife they have to use or what type of sight they have to improvise and than they examined the dead cock on how that type of knife able to kill their and damage their opponet. what i am trying to say is that if you have hundred of this line then you have to pit test them with culled roosters and see if they can handle this knife and wht kind of adjustment you have to omake. i think it's one to the advantages of having thousands of roosters and the best lmananari for i think alll kyou need in knife is just one sure hit and make sure your cock will be able to give a good hit for the knife to penetrate. thanks and keep on cybercocking.[/b]

Gotit! The said hearsay is a no nonesense quest of a thinking man, You might not have the sure win but sure you will be very difficult to beat[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

My other line of thought is that what if I fight and bet only on a three time, unscratch winner? Preferably my own chicken. Say, if I have plenty of chicken , select the best fight then in my own farm, until two time unscratch winner against each other and three time winners without a scratch will be fought in bigtime just to earn money and prestige.[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Joke only!!! Just a product of wild imagination!

see ya!

tsirs!

victe

[victe]

Originally posted by Maning:



Lets say that two full brothers fought with different(well known) gaffer but the knife was made by the same maker;the same style,and metal.Who do you think got the advantage,the knife???

I fought with my small elder brother. he kicked me right in my neck when he initiated the fight, then I raised my hackles and found him evading my blows and he rather prefer to be ran over by a truck than taste my anger. This same small elder brother fought our eldest brother and found his fingers grabbing the throat of my bigger elder brother that almost made my biggest elder brother unconcious. naawat. What I am driving at is manalo ang mas magaling, mas matinik at mas malakas, mas mabilis.

In knife and mananari,this is the other half,Dahil ang premis ay magagaling. Assumed na walang misalignment and good paddings set up,assumed same designed and metal quality, maintenance. In short,Parehong-pareho lahat. Kayo na ngang sumagot![img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

see ya!

tsirs!

victe

[Maning]

[quote]Originally posted by victe:
[b] I fought with my small elder brother. he kicked me right in my neck when he initiated the fight, then I raised my hackles and found him evading my blows and he rather prefer to be ran over by a truck than taste my anger. This same small elder brother fought our eldest brother and found his fingers grabbing the throat of my bigger elder brother that almost made my biggest elder brother unconcious. naawat. What I am driving at is manalo ang mas magaling, mas matinik at mas malakas, mas mabilis.

Let's say the two full brothers (cock/stag)have the same quality parehas magaling,mabilis, maliksi,angat sarado,at parehas ang senyales.ang nagcondition the same guy but was bought by different people the day of the derby and they were match at each other in that certain derby.Paano ,yan? isip? baka magaling ang nag point ng isa. hehehe.As i said before,it was tied by two well known gaffer,made by the same maker,style and metal are the same and the knives were tied correctly. Is the knife the main factor? I guess no...Bwenas,maybe...Kayo naman...

cheers and have a nice day.


[This message has been edited by Maning (edited 09-04-2001).]

[victe]

Huwag isali ang buenas at malas, expression lang yan[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img], pointing,conditioning,bloodlines etc, huwag lang buenas at malas. (Ang mga pikon huwag munang sumali ha?)

Okey, let say everything is equal, chicken, mananari,knife, pointing conditioning, enhancher drugs etc except the environment and sentensyador. (for discussion purposes only in order to just pointout smaller but important winning factor).



Good chickens are powerfull, can hit first, and if hit first, can retaliate in a split of a second while the other chicken is recovering his balance. A situation we have seen a hundred times in the pit.

How come are they are hit first? or how would two equals not equal? What are the winning factor?

one factor is ground texture, when chicken moves or land in a slightly depressed ground,(half inch depression will do) the knife touches the ground losing or distracting their balance or momentum in their take-off.( some sees it wrong step)

another is glare cause by lighting. If one chicken happens to face the glaring light, makakaapecto ito sa calculations 100%.

Another one is the sentensyador. When one chicken is hit fatally and the other retaliates and create a mortal wound to the other chicken, this is usually a draw and only the presence of mind and speedy careo would determine who among the gasping chicken win.

Marami pa, kaya lang controversial masyado.

Eto pa an old trivia sa Sabong.com.ph.

Bakit Emoy galing Sagot? Sino alam sagot?[img]//sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]


See Ya!


tsirs!

victe

very good topic!!!
great!