[Maning]

I always hear that if your battle cock/stag has CRD, he cannot win. During the keep can you distinguish a healthy cock/stag with one that has CRD?Is it really a must for knife cockers to have their flock vaccinated for CRD?

[San Roque]

Maning,
What you're hearing is almost 100% correct. It would be dificult to imagine a sick bird winning over a healthy bird in the pit. First sign of the disease, as in any other disease is shying away from feed. CRD is caused by a microorganism called Mycoplasma G. and it's main target are the airsacs of the respiratory system of the bird - thus initial signs may include sneezing, shortage of breath,maybe watery or even swollen eyes. The nosetrills may be watery and will smell. You cannot vaccinate against CRD because there's no vaccine. Best way to prevent CRD is to start when they are small. Implement a comprehensive medication program to prevent your birds from getting sick - then you will have healthier and stronger cocks for the pits. I hope this helps.

If your bird is not too healthy or has the history of CRD chances are--symtoms will be triggered during change feeding, conditioning, or traveling. so, if your cock shows some sign that he is "off" there's always a deep down reason why? and CRD or history of CRD is mostly the prime culprit. During my student years I work as an Alalay to a friend (conditioner/viahedor). We were compromised to select a set of 15 shows of cocks among 300 birds. We had a tip from the feeder that some has been treated from CRD. So what my friend did was to abruptly change everything (to trigger the symtom)-only 25 didn't get the symtom and we only choose 7 out of them. lesson? "health is still more important than the breed"

Those were good posts by San Roque and Oplod. CRD is a very dangerous disease as infected chickens tend to be on the small and thin side and are always drowsy (parang lasing) while displaying the things San Roque enumerated. CRD is not viral caused but bacterial caused and because of this there is really no "live" vaccine available for this disease. The sad thing in my experience about CRD is that when some birds get CRD, you have to cull or quarantine the infected birds and disinfect their range, pens or brooding areas - only to place chickens again after 6 weeks or more. The birds that will get in contact with them will also get CRD and so on.

The key here is prevention and in the seminars that I have attended (for broilers) always stressed that birds are susceptible to CRD when the place is dirty (manure, carcass etc) and when they are stressed (deliveries, building expansions, sudden change of weather, getting wet because of typhoon etc.) The proper giving of anti-biotics is also important during times of stress only, otherwise, they will not be as effective.

[Maning]

TonyDel,San Roque,
Theres a vaccine now for CRD-MG. The one thats available now in the market is a Killed vaccine; its reusable. I'm just asking this because I didn't try this vaccine yet. They are available in the US and you can find the ad in the "Gamecock", the name of the veterinary supply is First State. CRD-MG killed vaccine with 1,000 dose cost you $98. CRD-MG New Castle Bronchitis Killed with 1,000 dose is $145. Do you think these prices are too expensive or you want to save and gamble to this deadly disease? Hows that guys?

we just featured in our tukaan episode for the past 2 weeks dr. gil nicolas, a veterrinarian and gamefowl breeder and currently the technical head of premium agrovet where he discussed the crd disease. he mentioned that there are now killed and live vaccines for crd. studies have shown daw that birds vaccinated with this mg bacterin is less likely to get crd or easier to treat.

Is Pro-immune different from this one? or just have the same effect? as the sayings goes - "an once of prevention is better than a pound of cure".

-Oplod-

Maning-
Yes, I have heard of the "killed" CRD virus. But what I know is that the killed virus vacc is administered in a longer program than just the ocular way of giving the vaccine. The company that I grow broilers for said that "killed" virus vaccines are not that proven as compared to the live vaccines like the basic NCD and the NCD Lasota strain. Maganda siguro Maning if you could check with your local area/county veterinarian to check about CRD and if the prices of the killed vaccine is feasible to administer.

Emoy
Nice to hear that there will be live viruses available for CRD.

In my farm (vaccination programs differ in geographical regions), the only vaccines that the company allows us to give are the NCD and the NCD Lasota strain. They prohibited us to give other vaccines such as FP, CRD, Coryza etc. to the gamefowl (when I used to have them). Instead, they required us to "cull" all gamfowl birds that exhibit such symtoms so as not to endanger the broiler flock. Oplod already wrote the secret to this problem and that is prevention.

Originally posted by maning:
CRD-MG killed vaccine with 1,000 dose cost you $98. CRD-MG New Castle Bronchitis Killed with 1,000 dose is $145. Do you think these prices are too expensive or you want to save and gamble to this deadly disease? Hows that guys?

That's too expensive as a desease prevention program. I said program- because once you started it, you have to do it at every batches of fowl you raise in a season. But It would be a "worry-free" to use it for your materials and winners. Usually CRD often starts at a quail size birds because they are most susceptible to stress and bacterial related deseases, If you try to save infected birds-the bacteria will spread to the whole flock, until uncontrolable situation. Good eyes and ears for a sick bird at an early stage is very essential as a care taker.Good eyes to see and notice infected bird at 20 yards. Good ears to hear sneeze , harsh breathing and crowing.

Originally posted by maning:
CRD-MG killed vaccine with 1,000 dose cost you $98. CRD-MG New Castle Bronchitis Killed with 1,000 dose is $145. Do you think these prices are too expensive or you want to save and gamble to this deadly disease? Hows that guys?

That's too expensive as a desease prevention program. I said program- because once you started it, you have to do it at every batches of fowl you raise in a season. But It would be a "worry-free" to use it for your materials and winners. Usually CRD often starts at a quail size birds because they are most susceptible to stress and bacterial related deseases, If you try to save infected birds-the bacteria will spread to the whole flock, until uncontrolable situation. Good eyes and ears for a sick bird at an early stage is very essential as a care taker.Good eyes to see and notice infected bird at 20 yards. Good ears to hear sneeze , harsh breathing and crowing of infected birds.
Clean and dry surroundings will save you from spending that much for a vaccine. The olden ways to solve that kind of problem is
still very effective-. Me? I use water---(it's free) the rest is my secret.

-Oplod-

[george]

Manning,

We have used those vaccines in our farm. We do not use the combined CRD-MG and New Castles Bronchitis vaccine that you mentioned. Jeffers sells the 1000 dose CRD-MG vaccine for $82.25 and a separate 1000 dose NCD vaccine for $2.70. So far, it has been working for us...knock on wood.

What we find a little bit hard to control are the Fowl pox. Even if the whole flock had preventative vaccinations, occasionally, we get some birds that still come down with the disease.


As for the killed vaccines, my understanding is that the organisms inside those injectable bottles were attenuated. Meaning that they have been weakened by the manufacturers and not completely killed. The reason being is that you want to inject the birds so that it is just enough to develop antibodies that would protect them in future exposures to the same organisms.

If the vaccines were not weakned and you inject the birds with it, it would cause them to come down with the full blown disease. The idea is to slowly introduce them to those disease causing organisms and help them develop immunity.

Another reason is safety. If say, you accidentally drop and break a bottle of those non-weakned vaccines in your yard, it would be a disaster because you will ,now, be at risk of infecting your whole flock and everything around it.

I am not a vet but this is just my two cents.

Yours in the sport.

George Cabrera(C&S Gamefarm)

[Maning]

[This message has been edited by Maning (edited 07-01-2001).]

[Maning]

I sometimes agree that prevention is one of the best remedy to save money to this infectious disease,Clean surroundings, medical maintenance etc. Its not really expensive or perhaps is free.But, compared to humans now,we almost have all those vaccinations,from childhood to adults.To name a few, Chickenpox,MMR,TB,Hepatitis and even now for HIV they are trying to
make it or perfect it.Can your doctor say to you the best thing is prevention?HIV maybe yes, but still you can still acquire that from blood transfusion,needles, etc.Since I read all your opinions and through my analysis, since we have this CRD vaccine-Ill go for it-To be "worry free".Thats only my penny thinking.Thanks guys.

-maning-

Go for it Maning-

If your yard has already been visited by CRD infection then you have to start the program. But for those new area or game farm that had not been contaminated of the spreading bacteria it is useless--you will only expose your bird to that kind of bacteria if handling,administering,and disposing of the vaccine is not properly and delicately observed.
Once you start immunizing your birds against that desease you have to do it as a program where every batch (at an earliest age)will take the vaccine. Is the vaccine good for 1,000 you said? and you can not re-use it of course. So that it would lessen the cost of the vaccine-you may talk to some neighboring farms and share the vaccine in that way you can save a lot for your "worry-free". But wait...aside from CRD there's a new castle decease,coccidiosis,fowl fox, fowl cholera,etc. etc. etc.
he,he,he,...maning don't worry and you'll be happy. keep them game and kicking. mapauli ka sa January? kita'ay kita to'.

[Maning]

[This message has been edited by Maning (edited 07-02-2001).]

[Maning]

Oplod,
I think my place is infected with CRD but im not really sure if its really 100% cuz I didnt let them get tested to see if they are really infected.Its all assumptions, through their appearance and symptoms.So as what you've said I'm gonna start the program. Yes, I'll do that.I said killed vaccine, that means reusable and that I could use it until i'ts expiration date. I'll use the combination CRD-MG New Castle Bronchitis.For chicken fox ,fowl fox,coryza and NCD. (But since ill use the combination CRD-MG NCD i'll stop that NCD vacc alone) thats my basic immunization for them.For coccidiosis, I use sulquin 6-50 for prevention.For fowl cholera (Type 1,3&4), mareks(Range paralysis),gumboro(Bursal disease) L.T.(Laryngo Traccheitis)and viral arthritis (For young and old)
i dont use it,for they are not so rampant as the one i stated.

I'll try to get my vacation on January sa subong mga 170 hrs. Left pa sa vacation ko. So, by January madagdagan pa.Kon indi maaprobahan sa vacation, sick time mas damo pa gid. hehehe.para makapanomsoman, toning, chicken talk plus GRO? Testingnan ta. hehehe.

-maning-

Damo-damo gid na ang imo nga vaccine haw! Bal-an mo kon kaisa, kon healthy man lang ang manok mo naga develop man lang ina ang anti-bodies. Ang importante lang nga madetect mo as early as possible ang out-break,stress,or disturbance. so, you can segregate or cull the infected birds, disinfect the sorroundings, apply anti-stress in the water, closely monitor any change, and apply anti biotics for seven days if needed. Bisan sa aton to' libo ang manok- fowl fox lang kag Lasota strain ang ginagamit. I am only concerned because the money you spend for that vaccines can still be spent on supplimentary feeds and vitamins which will help you to improve your winning percentage.

[San Roque]

Originally posted by Maning:
TonyDel,San Roque,
Theres a vaccine now for CRD-MG. The one thats available now in the market is a Killed vaccine; its reusable. I'm just asking this because I didn't try this vaccine yet. They are available in the US and you can find the ad in the "Gamecock", the name of the veterinary supply is First State. CRD-MG killed vaccine with 1,000 dose cost you $98. CRD-MG New Castle Bronchitis Killed with 1,000 dose is $145. Do you think these prices are too expensive or you want to save and gamble to this deadly disease? Hows that guys?

Maning,
I must be outdated. I did not even know there's a bacterin now for CRD. It cannot be a vaccine as vaccines are for viral diseases. Regardless, $98 to protect a couple dozen chicks is still too much to prevent such a disease. You'll open up a 1000 dose vial whether you have a dozen or a hundred chicks. There are very effective antibiotics that can prevent the disease for not even a fraction of the cost of the bacterin. Try calling Pharmacia Animal Health of Kalamazoo, Michigan and inquire about their Linco Spectin Soluble Powder for prevention of CRD. If not, call Elanco Products Co. of Indianapolis Indiana and ask about their Tylan CRD prevention program. My CRD prevention program costs maybe 5 pesos per bird at the most and I have no problem with the disease. I hope this helps. SR.

SR, Who's your integrator?

[San Roque]

TonyDel,

Sorry about this late reply. I donnot raise broilers but I supply some of the antibiotic medications to some of the Integrators like Purefoods, Magnolia, Robina and a few others. I've been associated with the veterinary business for quite sometime(approximately 25 years)now. Oplod is right, masyadong maraming binibigay si Maning and he can actually save some of those money. Of course, we are not privy to what the actual situation is in Maning's farm. The broiler integrators spend only about PHP2.20 for all their medications not including those added to their feeds. Maning also needs to look at his space allocation. Crowded birds will almost always get sick no matter how good the medication and feed is. The ammonia emmited by the birds droppings could also be the culprit. I could share a Medication Program with Maning if he's interested.SR.

San roque... hello again..Ive seen ur website and i am impressed. great farm and great looking chickens too.hey i might be able to go home this nov or dec and maybe able to buy ur ready to fight birds to enter derbies in the Bataan Zambales area.Anyway am also interested in ur Medication program.I think u have also pointed out my biggest problem which is space.Just a lot of birds for such small space.i just tell my bro to cull and cull until we trim it down to a manageable no.nanghihinayang kasi to kill all those pullets...anyway my e-mail addy is calcust@aol.com.i believe u have that in ur file..thanks again......

SR, Thanks for the input. I thought that you also grow broilers in Bukidnon as I am familiar with some of the medications you mentioned in your post like Tylan and Baytril. I am usually tempted to use locally made antibiotics during the first three days (yung gawa ng VC) because it is cheaper to use, but by experience, Baytril and/or Tylan works better during the first 3 days after delivery. At the second admin of anti-biotics, locally made na lang because it is more practical. I also tried Baytril and Tylan on gamefowl chicks and never did I have CRD or Coryza on the chickens (as long as I breed during the season). Do you have other poultry projects in your farm? Could you post your sample program on this board?

[RARAVEZ]

Erluntz, kumusta na diyan sa Bataan at Zambales ang rota ko hanggang ngayon, pero siguro sa susunod na taon sa bandang south naman, sa Pampanga area, magaganda na raw ang sabungan lalong lalo na raw ang New Guagua Coliseum, sana pangalagaan nila ang mga dayo para hindi nadadala. hanggang sa muli.

Raravez,

join us in Cyber friends dream farm, I think this is what we need- to combine our talent,time and effort-I assure you that this is for the common objective. Let's prepare our retirements in a cock farm.

-Oplod-

Raravez...how are u??Yes im been fighting mostly in Castillejos,San antonio,Candelaria..Ive a retired sailor friend who fights in Pampanga and he says that the new Guagua Coliseum is really nice..malakasan pa..u can see it on the highway right side if ur going to manila..Im gonna try to fight there too..who knows baka suerte doon..

[San Roque]

Originally posted by erluntz:
San roque... hello again..Ive seen ur website and i am impressed. great farm and great looking chickens too.hey i might be able to go home this nov or dec and maybe able to buy ur ready to fight birds to enter derbies in the Bataan Zambales area.Anyway am also interested in ur Medication program.I think u have also pointed out my biggest problem which is space.Just a lot of birds for such small space.i just tell my bro to cull and cull until we trim it down to a manageable no.nanghihinayang kasi to kill all those pullets...anyway my e-mail addy is calcust@aol.com.i believe u have that in ur file..thanks again......

Erluntz,
Thanks for the compliments. My son should get the credit as he's really the one spending time to make the web worth your visit. In fact, you'll soon see more changes on our new domain name barfarm.com to include the few other activities we have in the farm .
Yes, I will send you a copy of my medication program after this. Let me know what your plans are when you are in the country. SR.

[San Roque]

Originally posted by TonyDel:
SR, Thanks for the input. I thought that you also grow broilers in Bukidnon as I am familiar with some of the medications you mentioned in your post like Tylan and Baytril. I am usually tempted to use locally made antibiotics during the first three days (yung gawa ng VC) because it is cheaper to use, but by experience, Baytril and/or Tylan works better during the first 3 days after delivery. At the second admin of anti-biotics, locally made na lang because it is more practical. I also tried Baytril and Tylan on gamefowl chicks and never did I have CRD or Coryza on the chickens (as long as I breed during the season). Do you have other poultry projects in your farm? Could you post your sample program on this board?

TonyDel,
Some locally blended antibiotics are just as good. Another key to designing a medication program is timing. Somewhere on this post, I remember someone saying he still gets fowl pox inspite of his vaccination. It could be his timing. I give my FP at 20 or 21 days because I don't get the challenge until about 30 to 35 days. If you're getting the problem much earlier, then it is practical for you to give the vaccine much earlier like 10 to 14 days before your expected challenge.
Yes, I do have a small layer house to ensure my supply of chicken dung for compost making for my plants. I also have Kabir chicken breeders which I intend to expand soon as I could not supply my DOC requirement. I do have a couple of other activities in the farm that keep me busy each time I am there. I, of course, spend almost half of my time on the fightingcocks.
With regards to my medication program, It will be a pleasure to share it with anybody who may be interested. I have used the program since, probably, my first hatch. Let me caution, though, that what works for me may not work for others. It's very important that those who would try must realize that every farm has it's own distinct situation. If I'm unsuccessful in pasting it here, I'd be willing to email it to those who may be interested.

[San Roque]

Originally posted by Oplod:
Raravez,

join us in Cyber friends dream farm, I think this is what we need- to combine our talent,time and effort-I assure you that this is for the common objective. Let's prepare our retirements in a cock farm.

-Oplod-

Oplod,

You hit the bull's eye. There's nothing like watching the sunset in the midst of fightingcocks trying to find their roost or drinking your fisrt cup of coffee right in front of your favorite teepee. I started mine 6 years ago - hangang ngayon di pa tapos. You are well on your way to a good start. See you in Bukidnon. SR.

how about "peste" is that similar to CRD?
and what vaccine is good for that,?and how can i give it to my chicks,
i will appreciate all your inputs,,,thanks...

vergel of binangonan,rizal

[San Roque]

Vergel,

Nanood ka sana ng Tukaan kanina. Dr. Gil Nicolas' discussion on this subject in today's episode of Tukaan was very informative. Anyway, "peste" is our local name for New Castle Disease(NCD). I'll email you a copy of my medication program.SR.