To any Sabungero!

If one is starting to breed Gamefowls for the long knife, given 3 to 4 familes to start with, what families would you suggest to start raising for the long knife. Any suggestion or advice I would appreciate.

Salamat and mabuhay!
Cockcadoodle-doo

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here are my humble suggestions:

1. Kelso- either one of the ff family -
a)Showtime Kelso
b)Cardinal Kelso
c)Johnnie Jumper Kelso
d)Cecil Davis Kelso
2. BlackWater YL Hatch or Lacy Roundhead
3. Black McRae or Sid Taylor
4. Johnnie Jumper Radio or Lemon84

these families i believe will hold their own in top competition even if fought "pure".
you just need to raise them "right".

I agree with Manila Boys suggestion of the Kelso's as one of your "Base" bloodlines, I myself like the Showtime Kelso's of Hubert Ward too. Mr. Ward's Kelso's are basically Cecil Davis Kelso's, and are very aggressive birds and are a perfect base line for LK. They cross well with Roundheads, so, my next suggestion would be a Roundhead line.
Once again, I like Lacy roundheads, and James Pope has really good ones. Tall high stationed cocks with brains and speed.
With these two speed type fowl on your yard, you will be needing some Power blood to cross to for Battlecocks.
A Hatch line would be a good start. I own Both Doc Robinson and Red Fox Hatch. I like both equally.
OK, here's where I differ from Manila boy.
I like Asils. Good steel game families. I prefer Reds, or Blackreds. I highly recommend Jerry "Asil man" Hamlin of OR for Asil blood. I own both his Sonotal (red) and Black Asils. Asils will add brains, body, cut, and hybrid vigor to your crosses. I have recently ordered Asils from Matt McDaniel, and am eagerly awaiting their arrival. You will get healthier easier to care for Battle fowl with your Asil grades. They are best bred down to 1/4 Asil for LK. The showtimes would make an ideal cross to the Asils, because of their speed.
I hope this helps you,
YFIS
Edwin

Hello Edwin,

I have some questions regarding asils and I hope you don't mind my asking.

In raising asils, is it true that they are more agressive than the American type fowl? That being the case can I still free range them or do I have to pen even the pullets at a very early age?

Another question, I know they are good cutters but are asils considered power or speed fowl and is their color indicative of what weapon they are more suited for?

I would have asked these questions in private but I figured somebody else might be thinking along the same lines and would be interested in the answers.

Thank you for your time.

sierra.

[Roadman167]

Sierra,
Maybe I can answer your question on my own point of view. Asils are classified as oriental fowls that are deep game, head hitters, and ground fighters. They are used for crossing on long knife fowls to rejuvenate old genes from inbreeding. A lot of modern breeders use 1/8-1/64 of their blood to pass on their gameness in their crosses. Most of the time they are crossed to speed strains like Brownreds or Kelso's to offset the slow characteristics of the Asil bloodline and have some speed on their crosses. I hope I answered some of your questions. Good luck and keep on cocking.

Sierra,
Roadman is right. While Asil/Grades make great LK fowl, THEY ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE!
They are for the most part, slower than "American" type fowl, although I have heard that certain red, (Sonotal) Asils are fast, maybe even as fast as American fowl. They are considered as Power cocks.Their value lies in their cutting ability, intelligence, and their legendary resistance to illness. These are strong birds.
As far as aggression goes, I have heard of Asils killing each other at as young as a month old. Does this mean you have to separate them young? Maybe. But I have Hatch that will beat each other to the point of blindness at 2 months old. Do I separate them? I have, but I will not next season. I will let them do the first culling for me. This way, I am assured that only the strong will survive.
As far as colors go, I have heard...and I do mean heard, I have no proof of this, that off colored Asils; Whites, Gingers, etc. aren't much good for crossing with American fowl. The best colored Asils in my humble opinion, to create Grades with are Reds And Blacks. But this depends on the families themselves. Be careful when chosing Asils for Grading purposes. You want "Steel Game" Asils. They are generally smaller than the Naked Heel cocks, and are body hitters, NOT head hunters. Naked heel cocks have a very bad fighting style for steel. They neck wrestle, duck under their opponents wings, and are head hunters, all habits that will get them killed in a LK fight. These Asils are very aggressive as chicks.
As far as being Ground fighting fowl..that isn't always so. The family you cross them to will have a huge impact on the fighting style of the Battle fowl. Breed them down to 1/8 Asil on a high breaking Family of roundheads...and you will get some high flying cocks!
I am looking forward to using Asils in All my battlecrosses. I am hooked on them!
I hope that I have answered some of your questions.
Ingat, Aloha, and Mabuhay!
YFIS
Edwin

Roadman and Edwin, I appreciate the information.

Thank you Gentlemen, Salamat Kabayan, Mahalo Bra.

Sierra,
Edwin is right. the asils you infuse should be steel game asils. there are many kinds of asils and most are used for naked heel fighting. He recommended a good source for asils if you can get some. Jerry Hamlin's asils are widely used. If you can find the right breed and blood combination you can produce some awesome, power-cutting, one- buckle killing machines.
Matt McDaniel has some good Boles type asils. This are a little bit rare and harder to get hold of. But they are good. http://www.sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smile.gif

Edwin,
Thanks alot for your advice and suggestions on the LK fowls. I have heard lately that the Sweater"s of Wade Newton are doing well there! Specially when cross with Bruce Barnette's Gilmore hatches.. not to mention Dan Gray's chickens are also doing well...I will try this birds and Iam having hard time locating american breeders who has the AUNTHENTIC CECIL DAVIS KELSO'S! Can anyone here give me a lead on how to get intouch who hass the birds??
thanks guys for your advice and suggestion I appreciate it alot! Keep cocking if there is anything I can do please respond and I will see what I can do on my part here....Mabuhay Cocking Philippines.....!!!!

Cockadoodle-doo

[GoldenDragon]

hello guys,

edwin is right asil is not for everyone...

I know of breeders here in the PI whos been breeding asil into their fowls for the last 15-30 years... and still not doing well with them in terms of fighting in the long knife...

they maybe deep game in the gaff , but perhaps not in the LK...

just two weeks ago,
we conditioned some stags for a friend of mine to fight in one of the stag wars here but one ran after getting slashed and the rest could not run because they were hit in the legs but refused to fight na, we ended up with a score of 3 zeros...

I also noticed that if these birds do not finish off their opponents in one to 3 buckles for sure they will lose...
they are slow to move and turn ...

although, I must admit that given the opportunity, they are wonderful and powerful hitters, maybe, the secret is in the % of asil blood in them.

for beginners I do not recommend that they go into asil breeding right away, maybe , when they have more experience.

although, there is a renewed interest in asils here,still no buyers.
as the filipinos like the smaller... faster ... pretty to look at american birds.

my opinion only....




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Princess,
There may be a legit reason for the poor score at the stag derby. Asils and their grades are VERY slow maturing fowl. They generally do not become "steel game" until the ripe old age of at least 18 months. Even then they are a risk, especially the 1/2's.
I have 1/4's, and plan to breed them down to 1/8ths. I am using a small family of "Hatch" type fowl that are more speed than power. But when it comes to gameness, I will definately wait till these mature fully before testing in steel, even at 1/8th Asil.
In any case, I am having allot of fun raising then, and do not regret for a second that I decided to breed this blood on my yard!
Have a great week!
YFIS Edwin

[micheal]

the high station ones do really well in long knife

[kogmohon]

have'nt talk to you for a long time ..please call..i lost your number.
..and for the lk get a good family of hatch. roundhead, kelso and
sweater.//lee 214 264 4455