Maybe some of us inject this type of stimulant before the fight, but how should it be given; dosage; and what good does it do? Is there any side effects? what is your opinion sir? AL-bab kokikokikok

Why inject ?

Hi Joey,
since you dont inject, what would you recommend? What should be given if there is such? may be could share your way. Hope to read from you again. your friend in business. AL-bab kokikokikok

Al,

I dont use any stimulants whatsoever in my fowls. I always believe that there is nothing you can do to help your fowl in the last 24 hours of your fight without ruining them. If you want your fowl to be aggressive then breed some mug or brownred into them, if its power you want then some blue face hatch will do them good and you get the added bonus of adding stamina or bottom into them as well, if you want cutting then maybe a little asil wont hurt them. if you want high breaking fowl then add some roundhead into them and if you want smartness try a little lemon (hulsey), multiple shufflers you ask? well sweaters yellow leg hatch is what you want. as you can see you need to inject it into them two years before (breeding) and not two minutes before.. keep em game..

joey

[george]

al,
personally, i would not inject my birds adrenalin especially with 1:1000 concentration. there are two uses that i could think of for adrenalin.

1. control bleeding. adrenalin causes vasoconstriction (constricts the blood vessels). you have seen boxers get cuts during boxing matches and in between rounds you see the cutman apply it topically to the wound with the use of q-tips or botton balls. it only works with small bleeders not the big vessels.

2. i inject 1:100,000 as an emergency drug. some birds would have an anaphylactic(allergic) reaction to medications that you administer.

pharmaceutically prepared adrenalin is the same hormone produced by the body during the "fight or flight" situations. for example, a drunk large guy approaches you on a dark alley in the middle of the night and you are by yourself. typically, your body's initial reaction is that your blood pressure goes up, heart beats faster, face becomes flushed(red and hot). it does not necessarily mean you are scared of this person because if you get agitated and would like to fight, you get the same initial reaction.

IMHO adrenalin does not guarantee that your cock with get aggressive and "fight". it could also work the other way around and it could take the "flight". other side effects are nervousness and excitability. something that we don't need when they are in the pits.

hope this helps.

george cabrera

what is wrong with this web page can not even retrieve the last page?

Great!!!!!!
Thanks to Joey and George, Hey guys you are great. Our friends out there will now understand on how to use this product, but why wont you both give us some lessons to think about the preparation before pitting? Although everybody has their own experimentations-eheheheheheheh!!!!!! Your friend in business AL-bab kokikokikok

Al, very interesting question. When I open any cockfighting magazine, I can't help getting overwhelmed by all these ads supposedly formulated to give the little warriors an "edge in the the pits." Does it ever make you wonder that there are actually more people out there using an aid or two than what we are led to believe??

Another question I'd like to raise is, does it matter to you guys to know that you are fighting someone who is into some kind of drugs?? Most people would probably say No. That is, if they feel that they are confident that they've done absolutely everything possible to raise only the best.

But what about the other side of the coin?
Those who swear that they never had an improved dwinning percentage until they started using somekind of stimulant. These are people who are just sharing their experiences and without any desire to earn by promoting or doing any sales talk.

When a couple of guys who claimed to be using Nux Vomica with good results got bashed in the Pitmaster, I couldn't help but ask why. Could these people crying out loud foul the very ones whose butts got kicked by those users??

Going back to adrenaline, or any other drug for that matter, it is important that one first know what this agent is and what exactly it does. It also requires knowledge of accurate dosing. Failure to do so spells catastrophy.

If there are people who are making marks with a certain aid and doing well with it, I says more power to these guys!!! It perhaps would be safe to say that what works for others need not necessarily be true for the rest. And for those who find positeve results with it, these are the people who supposedly have the full grasp of the said
requisites and have had their share of dues in their stages of experimentation.

The beauty of this sport among other things, somehow lies in the fact that its members have their way of doing things. Thank Goodness for that.

Perhaps, it would help others to see just what Adrenalin does upon administration in a safe dose. Adrenalin raises the Insulin level which is responsible for breaking down the glucose in the system. This breakdown of glucose provides the much needed energy during the battle. A rooster that has been carboloaded properly would have a longer time before the muscles get fatigued as there is a steady supply of enengy and this in fact eliminates the extent of having to breakdown the glycogen that is stored in the liver. This principle or mechanism is the same whether we are talking about a human being or a chicken.

Again accuracy in dosing cannot be overemphasized. In closing, I wish that more people would at least be open minded and less judgmental of others, however ridiculous you may look at their ideas, perhaps there's something there to be learned. Take care everyone.

I sure do appreciate you guys for your comments and analysis for using the Adrenaline product in a any form, maybe by injection (IM)or tablet (oral). My personal opinion? you really need stimulants. In this type of competition there are many factors to be considered but the main thing is (hint) manufacturers of this product will not going to advertized with gamecock magazines for nothing and not only that "it works" if you know how to use em. Email me direct AL-bab39@usa.net or call 8209218 Mla.Just an opinion!!!!!LOL your friend in business AL-bab kokikokikok

[george]

mr. grijaldo,

i was just reading your post and in your closing statement, you stated " i wish that more people would at least be open minded and less judgemental of others". it bothered me a little bit because there were only two people who posted prior to yours (one was by mr. melendres and the other one was mine).

i reviewed my posting twice to see if you were refering to my post. i could not see any part that would indicate that i was judmental. if there was any part of it that shows that i am not "open minded" please let me know so i could revise my post. i have used word such as "personally and IMOH" to indicate that this is just my opinion and that others do not necessarily have to agree with it.

al's query was asking for opinions and i just gave him my thoughts on that subject(adrenalin 1:1000).

i am here to make friends not enemies. so love and peace brother.

yis.

george cabrera (hgeorgecabrera@yahoo.com)

[george]

i meant "IMHO". getting spastic here typing.

george

Hello George!! Relax, bro. There is no cause for alarm. I was not referring to your post when I said I hope people should be open minded and less judgmental of others... I was actually referring to the
bashing that the two gentlemen received when they posted at the Pitmaster about them using Nux Vomica. I take it that you have
read that part also...

Actually, I enjoy reading everyone's posts
here including yours and I believe and proud to say that everyone here is very much professional and I say that with great
sincerity.

In fact, you did explain about the drug beautifully and I agree with the things you
put in there about what adverse effect that could possibly happen. There is nothing to revise as you put down the FACTS.

But I would like to point out the other side of the coin. What is it about this drug that can make things favorable if done with
extreme caution and understanding??

Whatever it is we all do with our little warriors is actually a matter of personal choice. So to each his own. I have a great respect for those who walk the untrodden paths, those who try to cut across
the grain.

I would like to close by saying I am not interested in making enemies in and outside
this website. So cheer up and keep posting
my friend. Thanks.

Joseph

Originally posted by AL-bab kokikokikok:
Maybe some of us inject this type of stimulant before the fight, but how should it be given; dosage; and what good does it do? Is there any side effects? what is your opinion sir? AL-bab kokikokikok

i think you need to focus on the stress factor of the cocks before fighting them

George, I tried sending you a note through your email address but with this computer freezing in on me, I have no way of knowing if you actually got it. Couldn't think of a way to make you smile. Life is too short and time so preciously fleeting that there is no sense feeling too serious. It not worth worrying about. Lest I be misunderstood (again), the phrase "The Shoe Doesn't Fit You!!" as the subject means you ought to be the last person to be categorized as not being open minded or being judgmental. The manner by which you write and present your views is highly reflective of what a nice person you are and everybody sees that. So kindly dismiss any negative thoughts you may have, okay?

George,

Dont sweat about it, if anything I feel that the comment was directed at me and I make no apologies for my post and I'll tell you why:

1. I feel that this is a sport and that true competetion could only come from a roosters natural ability.

2. If rooster need stimulants to win then you need a new breed.

3. The contents of this page are being viewed all over the world and I hope people are not naive enough to think the activist dont visit this page. The fact that we are constantly attacked by the animal activist for using stimulants to make our chickens fight and a post like this turns up dont help our cause.

4. I am breeder and I will not sell to people who I knowningly use stimulants in my birds, Why? If a wrong dose is given and my bird takes off (tumakbo)I will cull the rest of that breed, Now that could mean 50-100 birds just because someone made a mistake in administering the drug.

5. I have won more fights against people that use stimulants.


keep em game....


joey



[This message has been edited by Joey Melendres (edited 08-01-2000).]

[Edward Catahay]

My experience with adrenalin was not good because my opponent found out that I injected my rooster so he made me wait for a half hour or more before entering the pit. Adrenaline stimulates the central nervous system and is naturally produced when the rooster is in a fight. A rooster stimulated with adrenalin and not fought soon will go over because it will also drain his energy.
FIS
Ed

Mr. Melendres, please don't say that because that is not true. I have more respect for than that. I know you are a very intelligent person but don't let your ego get the better of you as there is absolutely no reason for me to be attacking you or
George.

A question has been posted by a member of this fraternity and it was a legitimate one.
It may not suit you to see these types of question but you cannot deny the prevalence
or use of these agents nowadays. Only a hypocrite will deny that.

The problem that I am seeing is a clash in our views. It is okay to disagree. People would always have a difference of opinion no matter what. I am not forcing my beliefs or opinion to anyone much. That is a fact. Whatever I said Epinephrine or Adrenalin does is something I learned from the books and I am not going to apologize for presenting a fact. There is always another side to an issue as there is to a coin. I believe that there is nothing wrong
in maintaining a balance if what is being presented are facts and facts alone.

I also would like to comment on what you said about having to kill your bloodline if a rooster you've happen to sell to someone employing a stimulant did it the wrong way and it ran. That doesn't sound logical does it??

I thought all along that a breeder's part ended when he decided to part with that fowl of his. Or I have have yet to hear of a breeder that sold his fowl with an express
agreement that he possesses a lien or hold of some sort as to call the shots after it has been sold---all because his reputation as
as breeder is at stake. Not Madigin, Kelso
nor any of the famous breeders who occupied the pedestals did that. And to hear you say that is beyond belief. Remember, it was you who said that. I didn't.

I have no reason to call anyone here on this
website not open minded or judgemental. But who am I to stop someone who wants to insist on wearing that shoe?? Could it be that it fits??

Joseph,

I know your hearts in the right place and that you were merely stating your opinion. my response was merely to make George feel better and not upset you at the same time. Joseph I agree that there will always be a difference of opinion when it comes to how you raise and fight chickens otherwise there would be no losers or winners.

Now with those runners, if you witness one of my rooster run away, a brownred for the sake of this argument, would you still buy my Brownred? thats what I meant. I would not buy a rooster from someone that has a record of cold bloodness. I take pride in the gameness of my chickens, It is the number one priority in my breeding. If one of them takes off I would seriously consider culling the entire breed unless I can prove that there was maltreatment or biological deformity. If someone bought 10 of my brownreds and all of them took off then i can rule out the biological side of it, and name someone that would admit maltreatment or poor conditioning? so what do you do ? would you continue breeding this line ? Would you continue to sell to this person your other breeds ? what would you do ? when you sell game fowls the relationship does not end when they leave your front gate! they take your reputation with you, you want these people to come back! you want them to tell their friends where they got the game chickens from! How often do you think will they come if you sold dunghills ? whats worst for every dunghill you sell, you not only damage that relationship with that customer these poeple will more than likely tell their friends and before long no'one's knocking at your door. keep em game

joey

[This message has been edited by Joey Melendres (edited 08-01-2000).]

Ops!!!!!!!!Take it easy folks, what’s wrong? You got heartburn? Please don’t misinterpret Joseph on his comment. He was not pinpointing on you guys. This web site is for exchanging ideas not for arguments. Okay! Honestly speaking “My opinions” try some stimulant it is good, it adds 20% efficiency to the fighting ability, life, game and alertness of your birds. It will not drain your roosters too, just learn how to use it appropriately. Now regarding “ game” I say all cocks has the capability of running. Although, this is my personal opinion, just see me personally, and I will prove it to you. Your friend in business, AL-bab kokikokikok

[This message has been edited by AL-bab kokikokikok (edited 08-02-2000).]

Mr. Melendres, thank you for your response.
I think I hear you loud and clear pertaining to your explanation and I must say that I understand your situation quite perfectly on this second scenario you just presented.

I'm sure you really did not mean what you stated for your 4th rationale as it very much depicted an entirely different circumstance and choice of action a breeder would take, considering the fault was not his nor his fowl's but that of someone else's.

By all means I respect everyone's opinion however they differ from my own point of view. In fact, I agree with what has been posted by George. My only desire was to clarify the doubts that I maybe cutting
people down with their posts. Silence they say is an admission of guilt and I never meant any harm or ill feelings to others.

With that clarified and ironed out, I thank you both and everyone else on this website for your time and understanding.

Where are you! Still cannot retrieve. Thanks

Thanks guys for understanding others opinion. Wish someday we can all have a reunion.... Your friend in business AL-bab kokikokikok

[This message has been edited by AL-bab kokikokikok (edited 08-02-2000).]

Hi Al,

Some information for you.
1. Check your browser settings, make sure that you are requesting the latest version of the webpages, not cached.

2. If you are accessing via dial-up proxy server, then you will have to allow some time before your proxy server picks up the latest version of the page.

3. We are keeping a watchful eye on this thread. We value the Members of this website, the purpose of this facility is to encourage open discussion and exchange of information and opinion in a healthy matter, all hopefully geared towards improving our sport.


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www.Sabong.com.ph

[GoldenDragon]

hello guys !!!!

joseph, where have you been ??? I've been emailing you the last century (century tuna? may advetisment pa iyan)... will you email me, please ....

my adrenalin is going up na and I haven't been injected with anything,WHY !!! because I will be fighting tonight .... may concierto kami sa marikina b-day of biboy lazaro of maxxi products and may tupada mahinaan lang,O ingit kayo ano ??? 2 stags derby lang ito.

tomorrow naman will be my first day to fight sa karambola sa tag-ulan 2 cock only.. finals will be on saturday another 2 cock naman.. so 4 all together.

george ,is your dad coming back na ? did you get my last email to you....

joey , is it summer there or still winter ???

al-bab, will you be watching sa roligon tomorrow ???

o siya see you guys !!!

ingat cheers and mabuhay !!!



------------------

Hello are you there/

Hello Golden Dragon !!!!

I like your style. O'K ka!!

Peace be with you guys!!!


Aramco
Saudi Arabia

[GoodWings]

Some great posts after having been away for almost 2 weeks. Glad to see our pinoy's website is very much alive and members keep contributing unselfishly.

My little experience way back 3 yrs ago using steroids was not very satisfactory that's why I resorted to oral vitamins and some natural feed supplements. I still use some Nux Vomica drops though. My disatisfaction was more on the inconsistency results when using those wonder drugs. I hope I can explain better but I see George Cabrera's explanation more acceptable and perhaps attribute more to the inconsistencies i meant to say.

yfis,
GW

[GoldenDragon]

hello goodwings,

first week of august na !!! are you still taking your vacation...? call me na lang.

if you come early enough there is still one more laban at roligon..

see you soon...

ingat cheers and mabuhay !!!

------------------

[GoldenDragon]

hello screamming eagle !!!

huwag kang magscream too much baka mamaos ka
but thats a nice handle...

from saudi ka din pala, marami tayong mga kaibigan diyan... OK ka din !!!

ok talaga ang mga pinoy ano ???? matatalino.

siya , you know na my email addy if you would like to email me OK lang...

your friend,

princess@sabong.com.ph

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It is important that we need to establish the fact that there are no guarantees or absolutes in this game, regardless if you are using an agent or not. It all boils down to our own personal prefences, something that we feel comfortable doing. In this day and time, we're seeing more and more of these "unbelievable roosters" that came back from dead, giving that fatal blow to the other rooster that was standing and the stronger of the two and you shake your head asking...."what the heck happened??" Yes, I agree there was that superb touch of the breeder in the first place but there's something else to have brought it to do such after bulk of the energy has been expended.
When lactic acid sets inand there is no enrgy
available for use, not all the fire in his
breeeding is enough for it to even make it peck. This is a case of "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." No need to run to Madam Auring. Your intuition will guide you through it. If you were dismayed at the results, do not pulverize yourself by kicking yourself in the butt. Look through your steps and see where the problem was....He made you wait for 30 minutes or more before he (opponent) came into the pits?? That's perfectly okey.... If you had fed your rooster with a fast absorbing energy feed while your opponent was buying his time...otherwise if it had been more than two hours after the agent was given, the energy in the body must had been depleted due to the fast metabolism and thus he has already gone "off." Or the agent has already been passed out of the system, too.

The use of these agents is not for everyone apparently. But if it is something you feel you need to go into, by all means, study
it very carefully. There are many factors to consider and there are dues to be paid.
Whatever you chose to do with your fowl is your bag and please do not be tearing down the poor breeder for your mistakes. Granting that his bloodline is proven and been doing well for many, his role ended when you got his fowl into your own hands. That is the bottom line. Take care.